I mean he walked right into a trap. It’s like the saxophonist guy who said “Wayne Shorter sucks” 10+ years ago. You cannot say that on the internet. You can say it in private but not on social media. And then for that to be the clip that you circulate. I do like Esat as a person though.
From what he didn't say Ron Carter sucks, he said he didn't like his playing. Huge difference. Even if you don't like either his or Wayne Shorter's playing saying either sucks is idiotic.
I don't remember the saxophone player, but I do remember Matthew Shipp dissing Shorter's legendary late quartet 😊 some 10-15 years ago. And not giving a single f..k about making it diplomatic.
I understand the point. On the other hand, and that is another topic - music journalism has over the years become so 'polished'. I remember journalism from the eighthies and nineties, when there were critics and musicians who were openly saying and writing what's on their mind. Nobody was untouchable and that was the part of the public discourse. Every once in a while there is some post about that: why there's no sharp voices anymore who would speak openly what they think of, even if its something negative about some legend. And then, maybe we have an answer just looking at this case: nobody really enjoys being brutally offended by hundreds of strangers on social media. While I was younger (2007-2013) I wrote several sharp or 'controversial' jazz articles, but back than there was just a hate speech in comments section of websites, and not a great amount of it. Maybe some on Facebook. But now with Instagram algorithms it's crazy. Over the years I also became tired of negative reactions from the people who didn't even bother to read the full article and only reacted to some 'trigger part' of it. And also I've focused more on positive, or 'balanced' writing having in mind that I need to count that the 'meaning' of an article can be perceived in a wrong way if there are too many heavy emotions involved. But again, I do appreciate some 'dissonant' voice from time to time.
The question of what is Jazz is a really interesting one. Is it a style of music dependent on specific rhythms, harmonies, and melodic concepts? Is it a culture? Who gets to decide?
But in the end it's academic. It doesn't matter if Bill Evans's music is or isn't Jazz [Stanley Grouch didn't think it was], it still moves me to tears.
I've always had a strange perspective on this argument. While I came to Jazz listening to Electric Miles, John McLaughlin, and later John Zorn and Bill Frisell, I eventually started gravitating more and towards more straight ahead stuff. Bill Frisell's albums with Paul Motion especially pushed me in that direction. So while intellectually I support people pushing the boundaries I prefer listening to and playing straight ahead stuff. Though the third way of ECM type stuff (Dave Holland, Kenny Wheeler, Keith Jarrett, etc) has always been central for me.
As Miles Davis once said before the legendary Isle od Wight concert: Call it anything. I love to think of Jazz rather in terms of being something 'inclusive' instead of 'exclusive'. So I prefer the 'idea of jazz' in a broad sense (musical, cultural, philosophical, etc.) rather then a set of music 'rules'.
There is a culture of judgement in the world and online it's even worse. I appreciated Jason Marsalis's thoughtful responses which celebrated Esat's candor and defended his (and everyone's) right to be into whatever music he's into and out of whatever music he's out of. We want people to be honest and vulnerable and there's also a mob ready to tear people down when they are.
I mean he walked right into a trap. It’s like the saxophonist guy who said “Wayne Shorter sucks” 10+ years ago. You cannot say that on the internet. You can say it in private but not on social media. And then for that to be the clip that you circulate. I do like Esat as a person though.
From what he didn't say Ron Carter sucks, he said he didn't like his playing. Huge difference. Even if you don't like either his or Wayne Shorter's playing saying either sucks is idiotic.
I don't remember the saxophone player, but I do remember Matthew Shipp dissing Shorter's legendary late quartet 😊 some 10-15 years ago. And not giving a single f..k about making it diplomatic.
I understand the point. On the other hand, and that is another topic - music journalism has over the years become so 'polished'. I remember journalism from the eighthies and nineties, when there were critics and musicians who were openly saying and writing what's on their mind. Nobody was untouchable and that was the part of the public discourse. Every once in a while there is some post about that: why there's no sharp voices anymore who would speak openly what they think of, even if its something negative about some legend. And then, maybe we have an answer just looking at this case: nobody really enjoys being brutally offended by hundreds of strangers on social media. While I was younger (2007-2013) I wrote several sharp or 'controversial' jazz articles, but back than there was just a hate speech in comments section of websites, and not a great amount of it. Maybe some on Facebook. But now with Instagram algorithms it's crazy. Over the years I also became tired of negative reactions from the people who didn't even bother to read the full article and only reacted to some 'trigger part' of it. And also I've focused more on positive, or 'balanced' writing having in mind that I need to count that the 'meaning' of an article can be perceived in a wrong way if there are too many heavy emotions involved. But again, I do appreciate some 'dissonant' voice from time to time.
Some of the most exciting music in the world is the jazz coming out of Europe.
The question of what is Jazz is a really interesting one. Is it a style of music dependent on specific rhythms, harmonies, and melodic concepts? Is it a culture? Who gets to decide?
But in the end it's academic. It doesn't matter if Bill Evans's music is or isn't Jazz [Stanley Grouch didn't think it was], it still moves me to tears.
I've always had a strange perspective on this argument. While I came to Jazz listening to Electric Miles, John McLaughlin, and later John Zorn and Bill Frisell, I eventually started gravitating more and towards more straight ahead stuff. Bill Frisell's albums with Paul Motion especially pushed me in that direction. So while intellectually I support people pushing the boundaries I prefer listening to and playing straight ahead stuff. Though the third way of ECM type stuff (Dave Holland, Kenny Wheeler, Keith Jarrett, etc) has always been central for me.
As Miles Davis once said before the legendary Isle od Wight concert: Call it anything. I love to think of Jazz rather in terms of being something 'inclusive' instead of 'exclusive'. So I prefer the 'idea of jazz' in a broad sense (musical, cultural, philosophical, etc.) rather then a set of music 'rules'.
I agree in general but I do have my limits.
[I'm looking at you, Kenny G]
There is a culture of judgement in the world and online it's even worse. I appreciated Jason Marsalis's thoughtful responses which celebrated Esat's candor and defended his (and everyone's) right to be into whatever music he's into and out of whatever music he's out of. We want people to be honest and vulnerable and there's also a mob ready to tear people down when they are.
I don't know what to think of all this infighting, but the AVA Trio just got a new fan.